Interview with the founder of Little Ghost, Sleepy: I am just a simple idealist. (Part I)

Welcome to wenser’s special column in web3. Welcome to Wenser's Web3 column.

As a representative NFT project in the Chinese-speaking region, Little Ghost is continuously building and growing increasingly outstanding. The founder Sleepy, known as "the man behind Little Ghost," has always been quite low-key and reserved, giving off a mysterious vibe. So today, we are pleased to invite Sleepy to share his thoughts on Little Ghost, NFTs, and the Web3 field regarding practices, insights, and future perspectives! Without further ado, enjoy it～

Interviewer: @wenser2010

Interviewee: @Sleepy0x13

Note: This interview was conducted before the one-year anniversary of Little Ghost, and specific information is subject to official announcements from Little Ghost.

Wenser: To start, I wanted to ask, if you were to express one sentence in this interview, what would it be? I’m personally quite curious. Or do you have any motto that particularly motivates you?#

Sleepy: Actually, I don’t have one. I often express that I am a very idealistic person.

Wenser: It feels a bit like a humblebrag in its simplicity, haha!

Sleepy: Mainly, you have a belief and want to do something in this industry.

Wenser: Does Sleepy have any other identities to briefly mention? It feels quite multifaceted.

Sleepy: I’m currently working full-time in Web 3 entrepreneurship. Previously, I was an NFT researcher, a rapper, and I also create some art.

Wenser: Wow, that’s quite a lot to cover, very low-key. (In fact, he has written hundreds of research articles on NFTs and Web3, released his own album, and is one of the founders of the well-known new generation artist organization Weir DAO.)

Sleepy: I actually started my full-time entrepreneurship last summer (2022). Before that, I was a writer for Web 3 news at Rhythm. Prior to that, I was in university. So, I basically jumped into the Web 3 industry right after graduating.

Wenser: Got it. You were doing research-related work before, and then by chance, you ventured into project entrepreneurship?

Sleepy: Yes, because while writing articles at Rhythm, I gained some recognition. For instance, I wrote the first reports on NBA Top Shot and BAYC in China, so many people recognized me. I also felt that there should be a good Chinese NFT project emerging. You see, there are excellent Chinese projects or teams with strong Chinese genes in exchanges, public chains, and DeFi, but at that time, I didn’t see any such projects in NFTs, so I thought, why not just create one myself.

Wenser: It sounds like after doing a lot of research and theoretical work, you felt a bit unsatisfied and wanted to get hands-on, to see how it really works and to do it exceptionally well or in line with your own vision, right?

Sleepy: Yes. Because whether you’re writing articles at Rhythm or posting on Mirror, most of the time, research is about finding reasons after the fact. For example, after the monkeys became popular, people analyzed how they became popular, their airdrops, and many new gameplay. Before they became popular, no one was doing these things. No one knew if this path could be taken, so after being an armchair strategist for too long, I wanted to verify if my understanding was correct.

Wenser: It seems that from the perspective of Little Ghost, the choices made earlier were quite forward-looking and had some innovative highlights. Okay, let’s return to our interview.

Wenser: The first question is, can you introduce Little Ghost NFT in one sentence? More globally, what keywords and expressions would you use to describe this project?#

Sleepy: One keyword is bottom-up, and the other is community-native. Yes, I think these two are the main points. Because in the past few days, we have been reviewing our process from the early ideas to the project launch and formal operations. We found that it is quite different from most current projects—we actually built a DC community first before deciding to launch it as a 5555 PFP project. At that time, we discussed everything, including the total number, unit price, and some basic operational directions, such as designing regular whitelist (distribution mechanisms), which communities to collaborate with, etc., all within our community. Many projects now set everything up first and then operate the community, letting everyone participate. So, we are the opposite; we created this project together.

Wenser: I see. It does feel like Little Ghost aligns with the idea of “Organic growth”—the project didn’t grow by force but rather through collective nurturing, where everyone contributed to its growth. The pricing and quantity were also results of community discussions (initially planned for each person to mint 3, later changed to 2).

Sleepy: Yes, these were all discussed and voted on by the community before being finalized. Wenser: Also, I think it’s worth mentioning separately, who initially came up with the idea for Little Ghost’s secret operation, or how did it come about? Sleepy: Initially, I designed just one part, which was to hide it (the answer) in a piece of land I bought in Crypto Voxol. I placed a Google form link there; if you found it and filled it out, you could get a whitelist. That was my only idea at the time, but later everyone participated in the activity, found the format interesting, and were very enthusiastic. At the same time, I didn’t see other projects doing similar activities, so I thought to make it a continuous, series activity.

Wenser: Speaking of this, I remember a profound statement about the secret operation: “Other projects obtain whitelists by grinding levels, kissing mods, or flattering project parties, which is more of a Pow approach; Little Ghost’s secret operation is like an alternative ZK proof (zero-knowledge proof) method of obtaining.” I believe it was said by someone in a WeChat group, and later it was summarized separately, which left a deep impression on me.

Sleepy: Yes, I remember that too. At that time, we felt that typing in the chat channel every day could easily be done by a bot or a studio, and it’s something everyone can do, with a relatively low threshold. We wanted to find a group of people who recognized our values, could connect with us, and mutually acknowledged each other. Additionally, the market was quite hot at that time, which supported us in making this two-way selection with community members.

Wenser: Supporting these heavier attempts?

Sleepy: Yes, you see, now that the market is cold, to be honest, there’s a lack of buyers, so many project parties are hesitant to make a two-way selection. You come to me, you’re just my buyer; I just hope you come and buy my stuff, I don’t care who you are, as long as you buy it. Now, basically, everyone (project parties) thinks this way.

Wenser: Right, it used to be a seller's market, and now it’s a buyer's market.

Alright, let’s move on to the second question: You’ve mentioned before that Weirdo Ghost Gang, which is the English name for Little Ghost, was intentionally chosen to add to the quirkiness. Now, as a creator, community founder, or artist, do you think you are quirky enough? And do you think the members of the Little Ghost community are quirky enough? If so, what makes them quirky? If not, in what aspects do you think they could be quirkier? Let’s discuss.#

Sleepy: Yes, at that time, Weirdo itself is a noun for “weird people,” so I actually wanted to express: our NFT is Little Ghost, and we, our community, are the Weirdo. With our community and these NFTs of Little Ghost, we are a complete organic entity (or organization?). That’s the idea. As for the quirkiness, I think we are okay, not particularly weird. However, if we talk about our role in this industry, we do count as a relatively “weird” existence—perhaps because this industry is early, and technology and finance are leading, so most people prioritize making money. But you can see that our team, along with the entire community, is more long-term oriented and idealistic. Some of our community members are working on their own projects, some are builders, and some developers are quietly toiling away, building. In the Little Ghost community, the number of traders is relatively small.

Wenser: So, the so-called traders and flippers are relatively few, making them more patient and not in a rush to flip or expecting a certain price increase tomorrow, right?

Sleepy: Exactly, everyone is very nice.

Wenser: Got it. Let me ask you further, what aspects do you think Little Ghost could improve on, or how do you feel about the performance of community members?

Sleepy: I think our holders are great, and the atmosphere in our community is particularly good. However, perhaps our team has been a bit too focused on our work in the early stages and didn’t spend enough energy to engage the community’s participation. I think this is a shortcoming we had before and an area we are currently working to improve. Because, to be honest, the community has been moving forward with us from the beginning, so we should continue to work together with the community now and in the future.

Wenser: Understood. It seems like you were so focused on getting things done that communication was relatively lacking, so everyone might have felt at the beginning that it was all work with no voice. But later, I saw adjustments were made quite quickly—activities, the Ghost Monthly Report summary, and some collaborations leaning towards Web 2. These aspects are all evident to the community, and that’s my impression. Sleepy: Yes, that’s one aspect. Another aspect is that perhaps we haven’t provided enough support for some family members’ entrepreneurial efforts. For example, some family members are now making books or clothes, but we may not have paid enough attention to help them promote or support them in doing this, so previously, the enthusiasm in this area was relatively low. Wenser: Indeed. Whether it’s an NFT community or a Web 3 project, building an ecosystem often starts with discovering your holders or community members, and gradually the ecosystem starts to flow. This is indeed very important.

Wenser: OK, let’s move on to the third question: At this stage (early 2023), with Little Ghost’s one-year anniversary approaching, what do you think Little Ghost NFT represents for yourself, for our community holders, and for the entire NFT field? Or what significance does it hold?#

Sleepy: For me, Little Ghost is like a declaration of intent, a statement of determination: I am now going out to do things, and I must do this well in this industry.

Wenser: The feeling of “getting your hands dirty”? Immersing yourself in the field? Similar to "skin in the game"?

Sleepy: Yes. And it’s also about wanting to make this circle more human and to have some idealistic sentiment. So I created this project, and our community gathered this group of people. Because in this industry, as you know, sometimes people don’t understand you, but these community members, including the Little Ghost project itself, provide me with a strong comfort and motivation to keep moving forward, similar to that effect.

Wenser: A spiritual pillar?

Sleepy: Yes, a spiritual pillar! For the holders, I hope everyone can feel a sense of pride and honor, proving that I am a builder or an idealist, and I am doing the right thing in this industry. I want everyone to have this recognition.

Wenser: It’s like telling everyone, “By supporting Little Ghost, you are supporting a force that makes life or the future internet world better. You are taking action to support the development of the industry and field.” That kind of feeling?

Sleepy: Yes, but I feel that I can’t really say we can significantly drive the development of the entire industry; it might just be a small but determined force. How much can it really drive? It’s hard to say, but at least this force will always be there.

Wenser: I can hear that you are still very humble and low-key. At the same time, you have a lot of ambition and dreams, haha. Let’s keep it a secret and not let it out.

OK, next question, many people are concerned about what you think is the biggest difference between the Little Ghost NFT project and other NFT projects?#

Sleepy: For this question, I think using an analogy with investment makes it clearer: other projects might be investing in the secondary market; our project is investing in the primary market. Wenser: It seems to require a higher standard. Sleepy: Yes. Because we are not trend entrepreneurs; we are not people chasing the wind; we are not those following behind cars and inhaling exhaust fumes; we want to be the ones driving.

Wenser: So Little Ghost is still pursuing new things, new ideas, and new directions, which is truly rare. Especially in the currently chaotic and early stage of Web 3, where regulations are also unclear, it’s indeed very different.

Sleepy: Mainly because those so-called “already proven paths” can indeed make money quickly. With such temptations in front of you, naturally, fewer people choose to take other paths. Additionally, another difference is that our team, while not necessarily a luxurious lineup, at least consists of people with a certain influence in the industry. No one is a complete novice; everyone has sufficient industry knowledge, participated relatively early, and has their own reputation and credibility. Most of our team members have accumulated thousands of real followers on Twitter or are callers in well-known Alpha communities. We all have a certain influence and voice. So I personally like to compare our team to the PayPal Mafia.

Wenser: Understood. It feels like the team members have their own networks and organizations within the industry.

Sleepy: Yes, “together we are a fire, scattered we are stars” kind of feeling.

Wenser: Don’t scatter, haha, let’s stay tight; there are still many small goals to achieve!

Sleepy: Understood. Actually, the parent company has been in the works from the beginning; it’s just that we were going through some procedural matters. We had some plans from the start. Because some things are hard to push forward without a company entity—like if you want to hold an event, people need to sign a contract with you. If you are just a pure DAO organization, this organizational form is not very common yet, and the other party will definitely not sign with you. So you still need an entity. Additionally, I’m not very optimistic about DAO organizations at this stage. Because if you want to accomplish something, you must pursue efficiency. And I believe that DAO organizations currently have relatively low efficiency. So I think, for interest groups or those that regularly hold offline parties, having a DAO is great; but if you have a specific commercial goal, I think it’s better not to do a DAO.

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Due to space limitations, this is the end of the first part; please see the second part below⬇️

https://mirror.xyz/wenser2010.eth/aEjYAwZh_sp6f22QXw9xAPvmizjyegywVGIThdRQasY