Conversation with the founder of Little Ghost, Sleepy: I am just a simple idealist. (Part II)

Welcome to wenser’s special column in web3. Welcome to Wenser's Web3 column.

As a representative NFT project in the Chinese-speaking region, Little Ghost is growing more outstanding on the path of continuous building. The founder Sleepy, known as "the man behind Little Ghost," has always been quite low-key and reserved, giving off a somewhat mysterious vibe. So today, we are pleased to invite Sleepy to share his insights on Little Ghost, NFTs, and the Web3 field regarding practices, perceptions, and future views! Without further ado, enjoy it～

Interviewer: @wenser2010

Interviewee: @Sleepy0x13

A Conversation with Little Ghost Founder Sleepy: I’m Just a Simple Idealist. (Part I)

Sleepy: In this regard, I’m not sure when this interview will be published, so I won’t go into too much detail. I’ll speak from a higher level. My overall view on NFTs, combined with a recent interview I read with a big shot from an investment firm, is that my understanding aligns with this big shot: NFTs have gone through a process from assets to collectibles, and now they should transition from collectibles to a practical use case. Yes, because by putting it on the blockchain, you are essentially assetizing it; it is already an asset. As for PFP avatars and crypto artworks, if you create them beautifully, they have artistic and collectible value. Moving forward, we should explore what these NFTs can actually do.

Because right now, I feel there’s a contradiction: if you want to scale things up, you need the community members who use (buy) NFTs to make money and profit alongside you. However, the only way for them to make money currently is to sell the NFTs, which means they are no longer part of your community. I think this is inherently a difficult concept to grasp, but it’s a very fragmented situation. For example, I have some friends in communities like the monkeys and Azuki; they have done a lot of activities for these projects, which have greatly increased their visibility and raised the floor price. But if they want to pocket the profits, they can only sell their one and only Azuki. I feel this is somewhat forcing everyone to rely on love to generate power.

Wenser: It does feel a bit cruel. On one hand, it feels like holders are using up the project and then discarding it; on the other hand, the project also seems to discard the holders after using them up, leading to mutual abandonment.

Sleepy: Yes, so I think this is quite unreasonable. Therefore, we are also exploring new paths. To put it simply, under the premise of compliance, how can we enable everyone to earn money without selling NFTs or enjoy other benefits? This part of the benefits is what our ecosystem will provide, such as other blockchain applications and products; there will also be some real-world related matters. Because we are not a particularly tech-focused company; we are more of a cultural company—doing cultural-related things and lifestyle-related products, which are definitely connected to reality. At the same time, we believe it is necessary to push Web 3 into a more universal Web 2 world. We will try to create more interactions between Little Ghost and reality.

Wenser: In other words, Little Ghost is trying to explore a better way to empower holders with benefits. Compared to the speculative profits gained from flipping NFTs, it can be summarized as "non-speculative empowerment." Holders can enjoy benefits without having to buy low and sell high or constantly monitor the market and floor prices.

Sleepy: Exactly. And think about it, Meituan members and Taobao 88 VIPs require you to renew your membership every month. If you don’t want to use it after renewing, you can’t sell it. But Little Ghost NFTs are different; first, you can hold them for life, and second, if you don’t want to use them, you can trade them. Wenser: This sounds very much like a lifetime membership card for a club or an elite club.

Sleepy: American Express Black Card, Centurion Card.

Wenser: That sounds very enticing. Little Ghost holders are about to become "people above people," haha.

Wenser: OK, we’ve discussed this part quite a bit. Let’s talk about Little Ghost’s journey from nothing to something, from 0 to 1, and as we approach the one-year anniversary of Little Ghost, what challenges and issues have you encountered, and who are the people you particularly want to thank for helping Little Ghost, you, and the community?#

Sleepy: The challenges mainly stem from the fact that what we are doing is relatively slow; it’s not something where “you buy today, and sell tomorrow to make a profit.” However, in this industry, time cost is a huge factor that needs to be carefully considered. So, for this point, the community and onlookers need to take some time to understand what we are trying to do. This could be a significant challenge.

Wenser: Indeed, or rather, all Web 3 projects face information asymmetry and time discrepancies. Many things, whether it’s fermentation or the launch of products, or even achieving a goal you genuinely want to reach, require a certain amount of time, resources, or other preparations. This creates a very awkward or uncomfortable phase, which is a phase of information opacity.

Sleepy: Yes, we have indeed encountered this before, as mentioned earlier. There was a time when our team was busy with many things, but before we had any tangible results, it wasn’t convenient to share with everyone. This led some community members to think we weren’t doing anything, but in reality, we were...

Wenser: Busy to death every day, right?

Sleepy: Yes. This is quite frustrating because you have to manage expectations (to avoid people having no expectations or overly high expectations), while also maintaining a certain level of information transparency, which is quite difficult to balance.

Wenser: Indeed, it’s hard to find that balance because sometimes if you say too much, people might misunderstand or think differently; if you don’t say anything, people might wonder if you haven’t done anything and are just lying flat. However, I noticed that Little Ghost has been doing ghost monthly reports and various activities, which I think have greatly helped with communication and understanding between the community and the team. I think this deserves recognition, really.

Sleepy: That’s true.

Wenser: Continuing on, is there anyone or any organization you particularly want to thank?#

Sleepy: I think, first of all, I must thank our team members. As mentioned earlier, people may not need to come out and do a project in this industry; they could work on other projects or become partners and probably earn much more than what we offer. To be honest, the incentives we provided in the early stages were relatively low, but perhaps everyone still contributed a lot to Little Ghost due to interpersonal relationships and the community atmosphere.

Wenser: It could also be that they are captivated by your charisma! Haha!

Sleepy: Anyway, it’s quite rare to be able to work together on this. You have to know that they are also facing many choices. Some star-endorsed projects have also approached them, offering a bigger stage, but our team members have remained committed and persistent until now.

Wenser: It sounds like they made the right choice by not going! After all, with star-endorsed projects, to be honest, by 2023, everyone has a certain understanding that this is a cliff-edge decision, haha.

Sleepy: That does seem to make some sense? Just kidding. Additionally, I want to thank our community because without the Little Ghost community, there wouldn’t be us. This is really hard to express in very specific terms; otherwise, it feels a bit too sentimental or mushy. I won’t elaborate on this; it’s all in the wine, that kind of feeling. Also, from the beginning until now, some KOLs and influencers, like Yongkun, Christian, Tutu, and Teacher Frog, have their own significant influence and have publicly expressed their support and optimism for us. I think this has greatly helped us in building our reputation and community stickiness. Lastly, I want to thank Rhythm. Because Rhythm (and some of the teachers there) has indeed been my guide into the industry, helping me grow since I joined the company. Even when I later said I wanted to work full-time on the project, the Rhythm team didn’t say I couldn’t leave or anything; they were very open about my entrepreneurial endeavors. Overall, I feel that our community and team are conscientious and grateful, so we will always remember those who have helped us and will not disappoint them when opportunities arise in the future.

Wenser: It’s already remembered in the heart; those who understand will understand, haha.

OK, let’s return to Little Ghost NFT. Because I remember a long time ago, Little Ghost clearly supported artists, including yourself as an artist from Weir DAO, and many artist friends also strongly supported the Little Ghost project and you. What has Little Ghost done for artists and creators that is worth discussing? And as the founder of Little Ghost, how do you view the so-called creator economy often mentioned in Web 3?#

Sleepy: Understood. In fact, in our entire Little Ghost NFT series, there are 51 one-of-a-kind Little Ghosts that we co-created with artists. We didn’t restrict their styles; for example, they don’t have to match the styles of our non-one-of-a-kind pieces. On the contrary, we welcome them to create in their own style and use the styles they like.

Wenser: Respect for creative freedom.

Sleepy: Yes, so we have a wide variety of colorful one-of-a-kind works, and we give all secondary trading royalties to these creators. Because our previous idea was simple: we work hard to operate Little Ghost well and make it more famous, so these creators can have a relatively stable income channel and a way to expand their visibility. In addition to royalties as economic income, in other scenarios, such as offline events and exhibitions, we also bring the co-branded works of artists to let more people recognize them. We have also created a creator tool that helps more creators issue their NFTs without code, which is still in a phase without large-scale promotion. Besides that, we plan to create a digital gallery called Manes Gallery—we hope to find or support a Basquiat of the Web 3 era, a Picasso or Van Gogh of the Web 3 era. We will use our resources and accumulations in Web 3, along with our resources, brands, and production lines in Web 2, to help more artists while maintaining the purity and independence of art, to assist them in some commercial endeavors.

Wenser: Understood, but can this be said? Is it a bit too early to talk about this? Haha.

Sleepy: I think it should be fine; there’s nothing too hype about it, in my opinion.

Wenser: Okay, since you say it can be said, then there’s no problem. If you said it couldn’t be said, it would have been released anyway, haha. Sleepy: If it’s something that can’t be said, you should add a long “Bi————” sound to keep everyone in suspense.

Wenser: We can handle the sound editing, haha.

OK, let’s discuss a bigger question about NFTs. Because we just talked about artists, and some traditional artists are entering the Web 3 field with their own ideas, but they may not have a good platform or means to find their market. In this regard, what do you think NFTs bring in terms of transformation for traditional and digital art? And what changes do you foresee in terms of attributes, regulation, and law regarding NFTs, especially in terms of significant shifts?#

Sleepy: Let me think. How to put it? There’s a common saying in the industry that NFTs allow every artist to live better and find their fans, which is indeed true. However, it may be much harsher than people imagine; it’s not that beautiful. If artists are not good at operations or promotions and lack resource accumulation, they still need others to help them. From this perspective, I think the differences between crypto art and traditional art are not that significant. However, I believe the major driving factors are one, its circulation. NFTs are virtual items; with a click of the mouse online, you can buy them without needing transportation or, in extreme cases, a specific temperature or humidity for a storage space.

Wenser: Similar to the preparation of a collectible-grade environment?

Sleepy: Yes. Another point is creator royalties. Traditional artworks are typically one-off sales, and any subsequent price increases have little to do with the artist. But NFTs allow you to earn creator income from every transaction. I think this will also provide creators with more motivation to improve their artistic level or increase their operational efforts because these are directly linked to their actual income, which I think is a good innovation.

Wenser: Indeed, in terms of the medium, the personal development of artists, and the long-tail effect of art works’ profitability, the returns for artists are quite good. Relatively speaking, a significant difference between traditional artworks and NFTs is the aspect of royalties—auction houses may charge various fees, whether it’s service fees or other deposit fees, so for artists, they don’t have much pricing power in front of auction houses. However, in the NFT market, it is a relatively free environment, and this difference also indirectly reflects the regulatory issues of NFTs. What do you think will be the evolution trend in this regard?

Sleepy: It’s hard to say. For example, regarding regulatory issues like NFT securitization, investigating bored apes (BAYC) may not yield any results. Some say NFT artworks are used for money laundering; I think this problem exists not only in the NFT field but is even more severe in traditional art, where the fees are also higher. So while NFTs may exacerbate this phenomenon, I don’t think it’s an issue with NFTs.

Wenser: I agree with that. Moreover, relatively speaking, NFTs at least have on-chain records, which makes it somewhat easier to trace and verify compared to the opaque operations of the offline black box. By the way, let me ask,

What do you think is the most attractive attribute or feature of NFTs?#

Sleepy: Actually, I might have said to many people before doing Little Ghost that NFTs are like a cup, a glass cup; if you pour cola into it, it’s black; if you pour milk, it’s white. I believe the artistic, practical, or financial attributes of NFTs depend on what you put inside. If you put an artwork, like a painting by Van Gogh, it becomes an artwork; if you put an unactivated token or permission, it becomes a financial product; if you put a concert ticket or live house ticket, it becomes a consumer good or ticket.

Wenser: I actually agree with that. I think the container attribute of NFTs and the scalability arising from that attribute hold tremendous potential. Whether it’s “everything can be NFT” or NFTs can be combined with various scenarios.

Sleepy: Yes, it might just be a tool. I don’t quite agree with the common notion that NFTs represent a specific track because they encompass both art and finance; it’s hard to define what track they belong to. NFTs are just a tool.

Wenser: It sounds a bit like NFTs are akin to the internet, computers, mobile devices, and smartphones, where what you put in and how much you sell can be quite flexible.

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（Due to space constraints, Part II ends here. For Part III, see below ⬇️）

https://mirror.xyz/wenser2010.eth/DtCu-Lm1nTKWVZnyxafwBspsQjNM0Bmiq9rZf8Yz33g